An advanced hit of the Like button before I get to this tomorrow on my commute. Can't wait. I now have weekly podcast installments from you and Ben Wakeman. What a joy 😄
(Will comment back with any thoughts once I've listened to the whole thing.)
Another excellent podcast. I don't have much to contribute, I'm trying to think about how the cinematic might apply in a work like Wolf Hall. I know Mantel was a film reviewer for many years and something of that must seep into her writing.
Have you read Damon Galgut's The Promise? Here's something he says about it: “The voice of the book moves forward continuously, without a break, in the same way a film runs on to its end.” I believe he was working on a screenplay before he began the novel and it made sense to write it entirely cinematically. It's like one long panning shot, slips between the minds of the protagonists mid-sentence, zooming in and out. It's quite a reading experience!
Wow, not read but that sounds fascinating. Adding to my list. Thanks, Simon :)
(I've also never gotten to Wolf Hall. Read snippets of it and like the prose and idea, but it's one of those books that's just never quite made it to the top of my pile.)
It won the Booker last year, definitely recommend it.
Aa for Wolf Hall, maybe I can convince you to join us next year. Savouring the three books over the year, hopefully creating a community around it. It's going to be interesting.
Just been clicking the links as I listen. This is absolutely rammed with things to explore. Thank you Kate. I'm going to save this one as I have a feeling I'll be returning to it a lot!
Just in case you haven't seen this, it's set in an apartment!
Oh, Jules, I have not seen it before and it is just divine. This is the perfect example of Deleuze's idea about crystallization of actors. One cannot separate Depardieu's career and tragedies (his son) as well as his buffoonery. One sees a kind of reckoning.
But the apartment space here as well...incredible. I'm going to see it again when I have more time to also go down a rabbit hole on that short film youtube channel -- and in French, yay.
Ah it's amazing isn't it? I loved it so much that I wrote about it earlier in the year. He's one of my all time favourites. I thought that performance was genius.
This is highly informative and interesting. Especially about apartments. I'm often inspired by video games, and one game that effectively moves storytelling is Silent Hill 4: The Room. The protagonist is stuck in his apartment and can't get out, except to go out of a hole in his bathroom and into a strange, stark world full of monsters and mysteries. But at home, he can only look out the window to peek at his neighbors and what they're doing or his peep hole and hear them speak. He even discovers a peep hole in the living room to spy on his immediate neighbor. With a tiny space, the devs were able to make this experience a compelling, unraveling one.
Thanks Nadia! Oh, I've got to check that out. I've been reading some interesting stuff about video game narrative on Substack. There's a lot going on there. I never went in that direction in my research but I would love to check it out! This also sounds a little like the peephole in Mishima's Sailor (although the boy is spying on his mother and her lover).
I would have to check that out! Oh yes, video games have been thriving in storytelling lately especially. Games that have the most experiential, moving narratives include The Last of Us, Death Stranding, Alan Wake (all Remedy games are narrative-dense and very meta if you're into that), Returnal, God of War, among others.
There's a whole slew of things to discuss in video games. I don't think it's been so healthy in terms of storytelling since the late 90s. (A shame about all the recent layoffs in the big companies, though.)
I'm not sure I understand what you mean by healthy storytelling lol. But, le sigh, yes, the layoffs have been awful, crunch time, inappropriate behaviors, etc.
This sounds awesome, Nadia. You know me and horror games ... I've never touched Silent Hill. But this sounds spectacular.
Kate, I've just caught up with a listen. Incredible. So much to digest.
Carrying on from Nadia's point of video games, the one that came to mind for me was Twelve Minutes (trailer here: https://youtu.be/uob80LBVgzA?si=b6pgdPcnWa5ficja). Unfortunately, it didn't end up being especially good, but from a narrative standpoint it's very interesting. The entire game is set in apartment, with a topdown view (as seen in the trailer). It explores time loops. Each "game" is only twelve minutes long and you have to repeatedly play through it, unravelling the mystery. On paper, that sounds amazing, and parts of it were, but unfortunately it suffered from some sketchy writing and illogical moments. It has a stellar voice cast though, perhaps the best of any game I can think of. Willem Dafoe does a great performance (of course).
There's a huge amount of think on in this space and, especially after reading some of Nadia's pieces, it's an area I'd like to explore a bit at some point in some, err, more serious posts over on my stack 😆
Defoe does video game voices?! Wow. This is a cool bird's eye view. Can't think of other examples of this on interiors at the moment, and surely not for the entirety of the narrative. Gives a doll's house impression -- as if we are playing with the characters' fate? I've heard about people watching other people play video games on YouTube and thought it was ridiculous. Now I get it 😅 Late to the party, but interested!
Thanks for the great comment and for giving it a listen :)
Yep, you're absolutely playing with the character's fates. If you look up "YouTube let's play twelve minutes" you'll get a feel for that, if you feel like going down that rabbit hole for a few minutes.
One of the shifts that's come with improved technology is the sense of branching narratives and player-driven story. Multiple endings possible, etc. Morally grey choices to be made.
The Witcher 3, Baldur's Gate 3, these are some of the bigger ones that have explored player choices in deep ways.
I played 12 Minutes too! A bit underwhelming indeed, especially if you don't progress much for a while. Maybe a story like this would have been better shown as a movie. But the performances were still spectacular. Dafoe makes everything better. At least I like that Annapurna publishes games that are unique and focus on stories and our humanity. A lot of them have been such joy and emotional experience to play. It would be so cool if you explore gaming in your stack too!
An advanced hit of the Like button before I get to this tomorrow on my commute. Can't wait. I now have weekly podcast installments from you and Ben Wakeman. What a joy 😄
(Will comment back with any thoughts once I've listened to the whole thing.)
Ha x6 speed! Great thanks so much for listening anytime ☺️
I would never subject your voice to such speed alteration 😉😅
Another excellent podcast. I don't have much to contribute, I'm trying to think about how the cinematic might apply in a work like Wolf Hall. I know Mantel was a film reviewer for many years and something of that must seep into her writing.
Have you read Damon Galgut's The Promise? Here's something he says about it: “The voice of the book moves forward continuously, without a break, in the same way a film runs on to its end.” I believe he was working on a screenplay before he began the novel and it made sense to write it entirely cinematically. It's like one long panning shot, slips between the minds of the protagonists mid-sentence, zooming in and out. It's quite a reading experience!
Oh yeah, I have read this! It's good and I like the way you link it here.
Would be cool to think about in terms of Mantel. I didn't realize she was a film reviewer! There must be something in that...
Thanks for your kind words and for listening!
Wow, not read but that sounds fascinating. Adding to my list. Thanks, Simon :)
(I've also never gotten to Wolf Hall. Read snippets of it and like the prose and idea, but it's one of those books that's just never quite made it to the top of my pile.)
It won the Booker last year, definitely recommend it.
Aa for Wolf Hall, maybe I can convince you to join us next year. Savouring the three books over the year, hopefully creating a community around it. It's going to be interesting.
A read through on your stack? If so, sounds great!
That's right! I introduced the project last week: https://open.substack.com/pub/footnotesandtangents/p/so-now-read-wolf-hall-with-us
This is top-grade info and I think I will ask my students to check this out, esp. since we were discussing cinematic devices recently. Coincidence? :)
Have to give it a thorough listen once I am fully recovered. Loving the links and resources, some new things there for me, too!
Oh that's cool. Would love to hear more about it later!
Thanks a lot :)
Just been clicking the links as I listen. This is absolutely rammed with things to explore. Thank you Kate. I'm going to save this one as I have a feeling I'll be returning to it a lot!
Just in case you haven't seen this, it's set in an apartment!
https://youtu.be/JHiZyK91RZk?si=5Fc2wzetcnUD-6fB
Oh, Jules, I have not seen it before and it is just divine. This is the perfect example of Deleuze's idea about crystallization of actors. One cannot separate Depardieu's career and tragedies (his son) as well as his buffoonery. One sees a kind of reckoning.
But the apartment space here as well...incredible. I'm going to see it again when I have more time to also go down a rabbit hole on that short film youtube channel -- and in French, yay.
Thank you! And have fun exploring :)
Ah it's amazing isn't it? I loved it so much that I wrote about it earlier in the year. He's one of my all time favourites. I thought that performance was genius.
As a self employed person, would it be wrong to spend tomorrow afternoon watching related films with Depardieu? Asking for a friend...
God no! Research! 😉
Thanks for the link, Jules.
Rammed with things to explore is bang on 😆
You're welcome, Nathan!
This is highly informative and interesting. Especially about apartments. I'm often inspired by video games, and one game that effectively moves storytelling is Silent Hill 4: The Room. The protagonist is stuck in his apartment and can't get out, except to go out of a hole in his bathroom and into a strange, stark world full of monsters and mysteries. But at home, he can only look out the window to peek at his neighbors and what they're doing or his peep hole and hear them speak. He even discovers a peep hole in the living room to spy on his immediate neighbor. With a tiny space, the devs were able to make this experience a compelling, unraveling one.
Thanks Nadia! Oh, I've got to check that out. I've been reading some interesting stuff about video game narrative on Substack. There's a lot going on there. I never went in that direction in my research but I would love to check it out! This also sounds a little like the peephole in Mishima's Sailor (although the boy is spying on his mother and her lover).
I would have to check that out! Oh yes, video games have been thriving in storytelling lately especially. Games that have the most experiential, moving narratives include The Last of Us, Death Stranding, Alan Wake (all Remedy games are narrative-dense and very meta if you're into that), Returnal, God of War, among others.
Love it. Will peruse!
There's a whole slew of things to discuss in video games. I don't think it's been so healthy in terms of storytelling since the late 90s. (A shame about all the recent layoffs in the big companies, though.)
I'm not sure I understand what you mean by healthy storytelling lol. But, le sigh, yes, the layoffs have been awful, crunch time, inappropriate behaviors, etc.
Lolol, sorry, I just meant it's in a good place, with a lot of effort being put into story and narrative. 😅
Oh hahaha. Yes!
This sounds awesome, Nadia. You know me and horror games ... I've never touched Silent Hill. But this sounds spectacular.
Kate, I've just caught up with a listen. Incredible. So much to digest.
Carrying on from Nadia's point of video games, the one that came to mind for me was Twelve Minutes (trailer here: https://youtu.be/uob80LBVgzA?si=b6pgdPcnWa5ficja). Unfortunately, it didn't end up being especially good, but from a narrative standpoint it's very interesting. The entire game is set in apartment, with a topdown view (as seen in the trailer). It explores time loops. Each "game" is only twelve minutes long and you have to repeatedly play through it, unravelling the mystery. On paper, that sounds amazing, and parts of it were, but unfortunately it suffered from some sketchy writing and illogical moments. It has a stellar voice cast though, perhaps the best of any game I can think of. Willem Dafoe does a great performance (of course).
There's a huge amount of think on in this space and, especially after reading some of Nadia's pieces, it's an area I'd like to explore a bit at some point in some, err, more serious posts over on my stack 😆
Defoe does video game voices?! Wow. This is a cool bird's eye view. Can't think of other examples of this on interiors at the moment, and surely not for the entirety of the narrative. Gives a doll's house impression -- as if we are playing with the characters' fate? I've heard about people watching other people play video games on YouTube and thought it was ridiculous. Now I get it 😅 Late to the party, but interested!
Thanks for the great comment and for giving it a listen :)
Yep, you're absolutely playing with the character's fates. If you look up "YouTube let's play twelve minutes" you'll get a feel for that, if you feel like going down that rabbit hole for a few minutes.
One of the shifts that's come with improved technology is the sense of branching narratives and player-driven story. Multiple endings possible, etc. Morally grey choices to be made.
The Witcher 3, Baldur's Gate 3, these are some of the bigger ones that have explored player choices in deep ways.
Amazing. As it’s hibernation time, this rabbit hole is calling.
I played 12 Minutes too! A bit underwhelming indeed, especially if you don't progress much for a while. Maybe a story like this would have been better shown as a movie. But the performances were still spectacular. Dafoe makes everything better. At least I like that Annapurna publishes games that are unique and focus on stories and our humanity. A lot of them have been such joy and emotional experience to play. It would be so cool if you explore gaming in your stack too!
Annapurna are absolutely the best. Outer Wilds 😍😍
Yessssssss!!!!!!!!!