I’ve been thinking this week about doing things live. Hearing music live, attending a yoga class in person, going to a work meeting in an actual office…
Even live-on-a-device is different from a recording. How is it different? Can you articulate the reasons live / live stream / recorded each feel different to you?
We’ve had a lot of these conversations since the pandemic: What’s more convenient? What does research say about…mental health, carbon footprint, etc.? What’s cheapest? But today I’m interested in going deeper, to a really human level of experience, even call it your artistic interpretation.
I don’t want to suppose that ‘live’ is necessarily better for the purpose of this discussion either! I do a ton of stuff online that has a lot of value. But I’m looking less for rational reasons and more for sensory experiences, philosophical understandings, or anecdotal evidence.
I think it's fairly well established that all humans, be they introvert or extrovert, need to connect with others. Even those who think they prefer to do everything online, like booking holidays or appointments, will wither emotionally if they screen out all human contact. The phenomenon of online interaction is addictive, like alcohol or gambling, and sucks everyone in to some extent. Ironic that something that is meant to connect you with others can have the opposite effect. Balance and discipline are important. If you can enjoy the good parts and avoid the bad, that's great. I've got a feeling that AI will be a game-changer. As people start to lose their livelihoods and human creativity is marginalised by the march of the robots, we might collectively come to our senses and start the fightback. Long live the collective experience: live gigs, live theatre, all that!
The idea of a backlash is interesting! And yes I always hope we humans will find the best way! Is it Heidegger who posits we will keep going back and forth until we get to the best answers somewhere in the middle? I’m having a brain fart on the name of the theory but think it applies to this.
Even if we do get to the best answers it will probably be temporary. Perhaps it's just a constantly evolving process. I engage with technology just to live in the world as it is now but it has never seemed attractive to me. All of its promises involve payback somewhere down the line. If our jobs get assimilated by robots maybe we will return to jobs like being craftswomen and men: making things that we humans appreciate. As long as we can make a living doing it we'll be ok!
Yeah my husband was just saying something similar about literature in an unrelated conversation, that it would have its big moment because of AI. If the living wage moves forward...there are a million possibilities in this direction you describe. Hope so!!
I'll be surprised if AI can fully replicate human art in any form. If not it's up to humans to decide whether a sterile, soulless, substandard art is good enough. There will need to be massive structural change in society to accommodate the use of AI technologies or there will be chaos. Might be a good idea to introduce Universal Basic Income right now or there is going to be a lot of hardship for people whilst all of this beds in. Just thinking ahead!
Exactly! I definitely appreciate doing mundane tasks online and find myself increasingly irritated if a service needs me to actually telephone or visit in person rather than booking remotely. However, even as an introvert, I recognise a need to socially interact in person.
Yes, we are complex little creatures aren't we! In the end though we are animals, not machines, and I foresee problems if we start genuflecting to AI and all the other stuff that is trying to make us obsolete. Funnily enough I always go for the 'phone first when booking a service, then grudgingly go online if it's too long-winded, which it usually is. You rarely get to speak to a human however you do it!
This is a weird one, and may not be entirely anything related to what you're thinking about, but it made me think of the fact that I get more enjoyment out of watching a film if I know others are watching it too, compared to watching alone. But I don't just mean watching with my wife or watching at the cinema with a group of others, I mean a kind of disconnected live experience, where you're watching something on your own but know that others are also watching that same thing at the same time.
E.g. in the pre streaming days, watching a film that's scheduled at a certain time on tv. Lots of other people are watching it even though you're not connected to them in any way. I always kinda got nice cosy feels knowing that.
Same with Livestream on YouTube, although there the chat gives you that actual presence of others.
Yes! This is very interesting. I mean sports or even live shows I get more -- we are all witnessing something. That’s easier to explain. But for what you describe there is somehting communal. I guess it also made me more focused whilst watching when you couldn’t pause or playback. And then there’s the after effect of being able to discuss with others at work / a cafe / whatever the next day.
Maybe relatedly (also not sure) studies show that people get more benefit going on holidays at the same time as a large group of the population where they are from. Something about lots of people participating at once.
I agree. I’m always trying to go off-peak or off-season, which has been difficult in a life of academic calendars! (Although lots of holiday time, also very nice.) I guess it may be the same effect -- being able to discuss the holiday when you get back. Or just the collective experience of being off work/school at the same time.
Since leaving campus/office life, I do miss catching up about these things at work, even if they are not viewed precisely simultaneously. I think it’s the only reason I thought of it. Still I want to consider your idea on a deeper level still as something unifying in the actual moment even if one cannot be aware of another’s simultaneous reality. I like that.
I am also tied to academic calendars. The one major downside since taking up a teaching and research position back in 2020. I do miss that freedom of being able to take leave essentially any time and go off-season.
I'm in the office a lot, so I still have co-worker interaction, but I tend to get so caught up with teaching demands, convenorship etc during semester that I barely see my lab co-workers and get oddly reclusive any time I'm actually there. I have to break that cycle.
Ha, love a good ramble. I’m very guilty of this (rambling and becoming recluse). Do you sometimes go through bouts of this? I find it ok personally if I’m really focused on some project and then can come up for air and socialisation after a few weeks, but then I typically feel healthier with those small interactions. For me it depends on when. For example, my ideas and focus are sharpest in the morning, so I avoid everyone at school drop-off and run home or to a cafe to work. But in the afternoon, I do the opposite and lean in to the most random conversations. There’s my reply-ramble :) & I think it has a TON to do with the question of remote work or online meetings!
I am the same. Do not speak to me in the morning at work! It's my time to just get as much done as I can in as focussed a manner as possible. Sometimes I go into my office and work with the light off, because if my light is on then PhD students come knocking and want to talk about things and data and I just can't handle the interruptions. I really should just put a sign up, or instigate a "door closed = go way; door open = come in". This all likely makes me seem like a horrible person :-| I love my students, but they can be so demanding.
My ideal work environment is actually a cafe. I love the bustle, but I love the fact it's bustle that doesn't involve me and I can work alone but still soak in the buzz. It's an atmosphere but without it intruding (unless someone is speaking really, really loudly about something inane and it's clearly a one-sided conversation and they're unable to realise that that's the case!)
To your point of meetings: I think it definitely ties into this for me. I feel time-poor at work every day because I have to deal with so many meetings that could simply be resolved via emails or a 5-minute chat. But no, we must have scheduled Zooms (still) that run for 30-60minutes and waste everyone's time.
We had a policy in 2020/2021 that was no-meetings-Fridays. I loved that. You weren't allowed (across the University!) to have meetings on Fridays. Or at least that was the advice. I wish that was still a thing.
I get what you mean, Nathan! I was saying this the other day about TV. Before the advent of streaming platforms, when there were only a few TV channels, one of the best things about watching a show or film used to be the next day, when you went to school or work and everyone was talking about it. Because there was no catch-up TV, everyone watched programmes when they were actually on (other than if they had recorded it), and nobody had already watched the whole series. Now, my kids watch a whole series in a few days; there is no delayed gratification.
However, if that was taken away again, I'd be the first to complain, now that it has become the norm!
Right I love that feeling but I also don’t want on demand TV and film taken away! It’s interesting to think how we can do both. I know some people during the pandemic who watched shows at the same time as people elsewhere, sometimes with a phone on for the ability to laugh together. Hmm.
I hadn't thought about the whole catch-up-the-next-day aspect, but that's absolutely part of it!
And yeah, I wouldn't want the convenience and choice taken away from me now either, but there's something to be said about those easier, simpler times.
Interesting topic, Kate, as always. I am torn in a lot of ways, because I think the pandemic introduced us to a lot of time-saving and more efficient ways of living and working, such as work meetings on Teams or other platforms and groceries/everything delivered via an app, to name a couple. I am quite an introvert and also dislike unnecessary mundane tasks, such as meetings and going grocery shopping. I got accustomed to ordering pretty much everything online during the pandemic, and I've hardly done any physical shopping since. I also attended online lectures during my Masters studies given by lecturers from Universities all over the world.
But the things I missed most when they were unavailable were the sorts of things you mention here.
Nothing online could compete with a live, in-person Yoga class, and although I did join a couple of classes on Zoom, I never felt the way I do when I walk out of the Yoga studio. Similarly, the first live concert I went to was so wonderful that I could have cried! Just being surrounded by other people singing and celebrating the band was something I can't even describe (as anyone who enjoys live music will get). I think the same goes for the reopening of art galleries and museums, sitting in a cafe and reading, and one of the biggest things I missed: visiting the library to access books to read.
So all this to say that perhaps the virtual life has its uses - and its limitations. I have 'met' some wonderful people online (yourself included!) whom I likely would never have met otherwise because of physical distance and time constraints. But there's never going to be a replacement for human connection in real life, and I think this is never more clear than when accessing art or attending any kind of group event.
Yes the benefits are amazing! Look at us all here! Thanks for helping us pause and consider the good and bad and how to make it work for us. I do think we are all still processing what we lost and learned from the pandemic and how it changed our world (also in positive ways as you’d describe). Thanks Kate.
Oh man, I can relate to this a lot, also with relatives quite far. The one good thing about that is that when we do visit, we go all in. My son is now almost 5, and I think as kids get a little older also finding a balance can get easier (not easy). But as I work for myself, each time I get coffee with someone, I also know I’m cutting work time. It’s hard to find the balance and it sounds like you may have less choice there.
“A texture to life”...really like this. And helps consider why prioritising these experiences is so important. Or even the way we may spend time alone.
I think it's fairly well established that all humans, be they introvert or extrovert, need to connect with others. Even those who think they prefer to do everything online, like booking holidays or appointments, will wither emotionally if they screen out all human contact. The phenomenon of online interaction is addictive, like alcohol or gambling, and sucks everyone in to some extent. Ironic that something that is meant to connect you with others can have the opposite effect. Balance and discipline are important. If you can enjoy the good parts and avoid the bad, that's great. I've got a feeling that AI will be a game-changer. As people start to lose their livelihoods and human creativity is marginalised by the march of the robots, we might collectively come to our senses and start the fightback. Long live the collective experience: live gigs, live theatre, all that!
The idea of a backlash is interesting! And yes I always hope we humans will find the best way! Is it Heidegger who posits we will keep going back and forth until we get to the best answers somewhere in the middle? I’m having a brain fart on the name of the theory but think it applies to this.
Even if we do get to the best answers it will probably be temporary. Perhaps it's just a constantly evolving process. I engage with technology just to live in the world as it is now but it has never seemed attractive to me. All of its promises involve payback somewhere down the line. If our jobs get assimilated by robots maybe we will return to jobs like being craftswomen and men: making things that we humans appreciate. As long as we can make a living doing it we'll be ok!
Yeah my husband was just saying something similar about literature in an unrelated conversation, that it would have its big moment because of AI. If the living wage moves forward...there are a million possibilities in this direction you describe. Hope so!!
I'll be surprised if AI can fully replicate human art in any form. If not it's up to humans to decide whether a sterile, soulless, substandard art is good enough. There will need to be massive structural change in society to accommodate the use of AI technologies or there will be chaos. Might be a good idea to introduce Universal Basic Income right now or there is going to be a lot of hardship for people whilst all of this beds in. Just thinking ahead!
Exactly! I definitely appreciate doing mundane tasks online and find myself increasingly irritated if a service needs me to actually telephone or visit in person rather than booking remotely. However, even as an introvert, I recognise a need to socially interact in person.
Yes, we are complex little creatures aren't we! In the end though we are animals, not machines, and I foresee problems if we start genuflecting to AI and all the other stuff that is trying to make us obsolete. Funnily enough I always go for the 'phone first when booking a service, then grudgingly go online if it's too long-winded, which it usually is. You rarely get to speak to a human however you do it!
Hey Kate.
This is a weird one, and may not be entirely anything related to what you're thinking about, but it made me think of the fact that I get more enjoyment out of watching a film if I know others are watching it too, compared to watching alone. But I don't just mean watching with my wife or watching at the cinema with a group of others, I mean a kind of disconnected live experience, where you're watching something on your own but know that others are also watching that same thing at the same time.
E.g. in the pre streaming days, watching a film that's scheduled at a certain time on tv. Lots of other people are watching it even though you're not connected to them in any way. I always kinda got nice cosy feels knowing that.
Same with Livestream on YouTube, although there the chat gives you that actual presence of others.
That's just what came to mind when reading this.
Have a great weekend.
Yes! This is very interesting. I mean sports or even live shows I get more -- we are all witnessing something. That’s easier to explain. But for what you describe there is somehting communal. I guess it also made me more focused whilst watching when you couldn’t pause or playback. And then there’s the after effect of being able to discuss with others at work / a cafe / whatever the next day.
Maybe relatedly (also not sure) studies show that people get more benefit going on holidays at the same time as a large group of the population where they are from. Something about lots of people participating at once.
Yes, you and Kate J are spot on about it being partly due to then being able to discuss it all the next day. I hadn't thought of that aspect.
I didn't know that about holidays. That's interesting. Is there an association with certain countries preferring to do that over others?
Personally, I'm happy to go to less touristy places.
I agree. I’m always trying to go off-peak or off-season, which has been difficult in a life of academic calendars! (Although lots of holiday time, also very nice.) I guess it may be the same effect -- being able to discuss the holiday when you get back. Or just the collective experience of being off work/school at the same time.
Since leaving campus/office life, I do miss catching up about these things at work, even if they are not viewed precisely simultaneously. I think it’s the only reason I thought of it. Still I want to consider your idea on a deeper level still as something unifying in the actual moment even if one cannot be aware of another’s simultaneous reality. I like that.
I am also tied to academic calendars. The one major downside since taking up a teaching and research position back in 2020. I do miss that freedom of being able to take leave essentially any time and go off-season.
I'm in the office a lot, so I still have co-worker interaction, but I tend to get so caught up with teaching demands, convenorship etc during semester that I barely see my lab co-workers and get oddly reclusive any time I'm actually there. I have to break that cycle.
Anyway, that's me rambling off topic haha.
Ha, love a good ramble. I’m very guilty of this (rambling and becoming recluse). Do you sometimes go through bouts of this? I find it ok personally if I’m really focused on some project and then can come up for air and socialisation after a few weeks, but then I typically feel healthier with those small interactions. For me it depends on when. For example, my ideas and focus are sharpest in the morning, so I avoid everyone at school drop-off and run home or to a cafe to work. But in the afternoon, I do the opposite and lean in to the most random conversations. There’s my reply-ramble :) & I think it has a TON to do with the question of remote work or online meetings!
Hehe, glad you're happy to have the ramble.
I am the same. Do not speak to me in the morning at work! It's my time to just get as much done as I can in as focussed a manner as possible. Sometimes I go into my office and work with the light off, because if my light is on then PhD students come knocking and want to talk about things and data and I just can't handle the interruptions. I really should just put a sign up, or instigate a "door closed = go way; door open = come in". This all likely makes me seem like a horrible person :-| I love my students, but they can be so demanding.
My ideal work environment is actually a cafe. I love the bustle, but I love the fact it's bustle that doesn't involve me and I can work alone but still soak in the buzz. It's an atmosphere but without it intruding (unless someone is speaking really, really loudly about something inane and it's clearly a one-sided conversation and they're unable to realise that that's the case!)
To your point of meetings: I think it definitely ties into this for me. I feel time-poor at work every day because I have to deal with so many meetings that could simply be resolved via emails or a 5-minute chat. But no, we must have scheduled Zooms (still) that run for 30-60minutes and waste everyone's time.
We had a policy in 2020/2021 that was no-meetings-Fridays. I loved that. You weren't allowed (across the University!) to have meetings on Fridays. Or at least that was the advice. I wish that was still a thing.
I get what you mean, Nathan! I was saying this the other day about TV. Before the advent of streaming platforms, when there were only a few TV channels, one of the best things about watching a show or film used to be the next day, when you went to school or work and everyone was talking about it. Because there was no catch-up TV, everyone watched programmes when they were actually on (other than if they had recorded it), and nobody had already watched the whole series. Now, my kids watch a whole series in a few days; there is no delayed gratification.
However, if that was taken away again, I'd be the first to complain, now that it has become the norm!
Right I love that feeling but I also don’t want on demand TV and film taken away! It’s interesting to think how we can do both. I know some people during the pandemic who watched shows at the same time as people elsewhere, sometimes with a phone on for the ability to laugh together. Hmm.
Yes! My daughter and her boyfriend did that in the evenings because they were separated during lockdowns!
I hadn't thought about the whole catch-up-the-next-day aspect, but that's absolutely part of it!
And yeah, I wouldn't want the convenience and choice taken away from me now either, but there's something to be said about those easier, simpler times.
Interesting topic, Kate, as always. I am torn in a lot of ways, because I think the pandemic introduced us to a lot of time-saving and more efficient ways of living and working, such as work meetings on Teams or other platforms and groceries/everything delivered via an app, to name a couple. I am quite an introvert and also dislike unnecessary mundane tasks, such as meetings and going grocery shopping. I got accustomed to ordering pretty much everything online during the pandemic, and I've hardly done any physical shopping since. I also attended online lectures during my Masters studies given by lecturers from Universities all over the world.
But the things I missed most when they were unavailable were the sorts of things you mention here.
Nothing online could compete with a live, in-person Yoga class, and although I did join a couple of classes on Zoom, I never felt the way I do when I walk out of the Yoga studio. Similarly, the first live concert I went to was so wonderful that I could have cried! Just being surrounded by other people singing and celebrating the band was something I can't even describe (as anyone who enjoys live music will get). I think the same goes for the reopening of art galleries and museums, sitting in a cafe and reading, and one of the biggest things I missed: visiting the library to access books to read.
So all this to say that perhaps the virtual life has its uses - and its limitations. I have 'met' some wonderful people online (yourself included!) whom I likely would never have met otherwise because of physical distance and time constraints. But there's never going to be a replacement for human connection in real life, and I think this is never more clear than when accessing art or attending any kind of group event.
Yes the benefits are amazing! Look at us all here! Thanks for helping us pause and consider the good and bad and how to make it work for us. I do think we are all still processing what we lost and learned from the pandemic and how it changed our world (also in positive ways as you’d describe). Thanks Kate.
Oh man, I can relate to this a lot, also with relatives quite far. The one good thing about that is that when we do visit, we go all in. My son is now almost 5, and I think as kids get a little older also finding a balance can get easier (not easy). But as I work for myself, each time I get coffee with someone, I also know I’m cutting work time. It’s hard to find the balance and it sounds like you may have less choice there.
“A texture to life”...really like this. And helps consider why prioritising these experiences is so important. Or even the way we may spend time alone.
Yes, I think this is true about meeting parents. Hope so for you! I doubt they thought of the repercussions for parents and community building.