I love these short, bite-sized jumping off points! I don't often write fiction anymore, but I realised these three ideas can easily be incorporated into a personal essay I'm currently playing around with. I'm trying to create it as a braided essay, and I think your ideas around framing and sections will be really useful. Thanks! 😊
Well, I do mention V Woolf quite a bit and especially "Room..." (for other readers - where Kate's newsletter title is from). She is playing between non-fiction and fiction there. So maybe that is useful! Great to hear it :)
Thanks Diane! Your website is also great - I'm not sure if you've made it or someone else? I think also how one displays art, whether online or in a gallery, might consider some of these ideas about framing. Your website is really beautiful and I like a lot of the subtitle language to clue us into your art's direction.
Lovely questions. This is a great series of related posts you've constructed. Not listened yet, but want to answer some of these.
I've only been writing on Substack, so I'm constrained (?) by the format and formatting, but I am now aware that my frames have certainly been Title>Subtitle>Image before the words. Sometimes I'll frame with some context/preamble before the fiction, other times after. I hadn't consciously thought about what that may be doing, but now I'm curious.
As for opening line, I can only speak to Brae where there's currently a defined opening (Precipice is fragmented across chapters and storylines at the moment):
"The meteorite—if that is what it truly was—came three days after leaving Toӧr."
^I'm aiming for a degree of intrigue here with the narrator seemingly unsure. Setting the tone and point of view (I hope).
I like how your narrator questions reality/truth in that first sentence. That's great. We start with questioning the space we are entering and what we can believe.
I also like starting with these constraints or norms/conventions and then considering the changes or subversions and that effect. I'm so new to online fiction that I have a lot to learn from your work! Thanks Nathan. :)
How many levels... an interesting thought. Title, Subtitle, Parts, Chapters, Paragraphs, Sentences. Epigraphs per Part or Chapter (e.g. Dune). Looking at my Scrivener project I can see that I strive for symmetry, e.g. in a five-act structure, each act, five chapters, a mini 5-act structure within the act.
Symmetry is nice. And I guess it depends on the story as well how symmetrical you want to make things (also in terms of word count etc). Nice to add that to the mix! Thanks Alexander.
Thanks again for these little prompts/opportunities to share.
For my self-published work each volume had a subtitle, and each chapter had a title. They were based on an existing YouTube series, so people coming into it knew what to expect, the framing was that each chapter corresponded to one 20-30 min video novelised. As it went on I branched out to other series, one of which used a framing inspired by Rick Riordan's Heroes of Olympus series, where each chapter is numbered then has the POV character's name. (I'm going more into this in https://harveyhamer.substack.com/s/my-writing-journey .) My current work I just use numbers, though hopefully the titles themselves invoke some feeling of what the book might be about, if you know its SSF: Children of Shadows, Father of Light...
Children of Shadows is in three parts of differing lengths. The first part is just titled Children of Shadows, and is almost a standalone story like the first Star wars film is. That's what I'm serialising on here: https://harveyhamer.substack.com/s/children-of-shadows . The second part Daughter of Shadows is more like a short story, focussing on one character, and then the rest of the novel carries the story forward with five POVs, though is called Son of Shadows, as he is the main protagonist.
I'm thinking of adding quotes for some interlude short stories in the third novel in this universe, each relating in a sort of pastiche to the mythology I've created.
The first line of Children of Shadows is: "They came towards him." I think it says what I want it to say, it obviously puts the reader right into the action, questioning what is moving towards who, setting up the horror-ish atmosphere of the opening to Chapter One.
I met Sebastien de Castell at a comic con earlier this year and his advice that I thought I'd share here was to make the first sentence a summary of sorts for the novel or story, its core theme. I'm thinking about this especially for my third novel, and the interludes within, though I think it does apply in a way to Children of Shadows. I think it can apply to most stories really.
I love these short, bite-sized jumping off points! I don't often write fiction anymore, but I realised these three ideas can easily be incorporated into a personal essay I'm currently playing around with. I'm trying to create it as a braided essay, and I think your ideas around framing and sections will be really useful. Thanks! 😊
Thanks Kate!
Well, I do mention V Woolf quite a bit and especially "Room..." (for other readers - where Kate's newsletter title is from). She is playing between non-fiction and fiction there. So maybe that is useful! Great to hear it :)
Love this whole podcast concept. My work is visual but the same principles apply. Can be seen
www.diana-Terry.com
Thanks Diane! Your website is also great - I'm not sure if you've made it or someone else? I think also how one displays art, whether online or in a gallery, might consider some of these ideas about framing. Your website is really beautiful and I like a lot of the subtitle language to clue us into your art's direction.
Lovely questions. This is a great series of related posts you've constructed. Not listened yet, but want to answer some of these.
I've only been writing on Substack, so I'm constrained (?) by the format and formatting, but I am now aware that my frames have certainly been Title>Subtitle>Image before the words. Sometimes I'll frame with some context/preamble before the fiction, other times after. I hadn't consciously thought about what that may be doing, but now I'm curious.
As for opening line, I can only speak to Brae where there's currently a defined opening (Precipice is fragmented across chapters and storylines at the moment):
"The meteorite—if that is what it truly was—came three days after leaving Toӧr."
^I'm aiming for a degree of intrigue here with the narrator seemingly unsure. Setting the tone and point of view (I hope).
I like how your narrator questions reality/truth in that first sentence. That's great. We start with questioning the space we are entering and what we can believe.
I also like starting with these constraints or norms/conventions and then considering the changes or subversions and that effect. I'm so new to online fiction that I have a lot to learn from your work! Thanks Nathan. :)
Thanks Kate, but I am also new, I'm treading an unknown path and seeing how the footing is with each step 😉
How many levels... an interesting thought. Title, Subtitle, Parts, Chapters, Paragraphs, Sentences. Epigraphs per Part or Chapter (e.g. Dune). Looking at my Scrivener project I can see that I strive for symmetry, e.g. in a five-act structure, each act, five chapters, a mini 5-act structure within the act.
Symmetry is nice. And I guess it depends on the story as well how symmetrical you want to make things (also in terms of word count etc). Nice to add that to the mix! Thanks Alexander.
This is just a great nugget of ideas, brilliant
Thanks Jon! I often think of the frame of many of the cartoons I watch. The music especially!
Thanks again for these little prompts/opportunities to share.
For my self-published work each volume had a subtitle, and each chapter had a title. They were based on an existing YouTube series, so people coming into it knew what to expect, the framing was that each chapter corresponded to one 20-30 min video novelised. As it went on I branched out to other series, one of which used a framing inspired by Rick Riordan's Heroes of Olympus series, where each chapter is numbered then has the POV character's name. (I'm going more into this in https://harveyhamer.substack.com/s/my-writing-journey .) My current work I just use numbers, though hopefully the titles themselves invoke some feeling of what the book might be about, if you know its SSF: Children of Shadows, Father of Light...
Children of Shadows is in three parts of differing lengths. The first part is just titled Children of Shadows, and is almost a standalone story like the first Star wars film is. That's what I'm serialising on here: https://harveyhamer.substack.com/s/children-of-shadows . The second part Daughter of Shadows is more like a short story, focussing on one character, and then the rest of the novel carries the story forward with five POVs, though is called Son of Shadows, as he is the main protagonist.
I'm thinking of adding quotes for some interlude short stories in the third novel in this universe, each relating in a sort of pastiche to the mythology I've created.
The first line of Children of Shadows is: "They came towards him." I think it says what I want it to say, it obviously puts the reader right into the action, questioning what is moving towards who, setting up the horror-ish atmosphere of the opening to Chapter One.
I met Sebastien de Castell at a comic con earlier this year and his advice that I thought I'd share here was to make the first sentence a summary of sorts for the novel or story, its core theme. I'm thinking about this especially for my third novel, and the interludes within, though I think it does apply in a way to Children of Shadows. I think it can apply to most stories really.
Harvey, thanks so much! You've got a lot of writing going on :)
Sometimes I think 'just numbers' are best. I guess it's just an awareness of how this might affect the reader.
5 POV? Wow. Very cool. I like a lot of books that utilize this - As I Lay Dying, Plainsong...
I would like to write a book like this sometime. Thanks for listening and sharing your work!