Such a fascinating post. As you know, I write and talk a lot about mothering, literature, and creativity, but fathering isn't something that I have ever really looked at in depth. Some great links to check out - thanks!
Thanks, Kate! Yes I imagine it could be an interesting “special edition” type of investigation on your newsletter. I guess defining mothering within your literary context has implications for fathers, too.
Also, while not directly about fatherhood, there are a lot of great sitcom dads out there like Phil Dunphy (Modern Family) or Red Foreman (That 70s Show) who give something to aspire to.
Thanks for sharing this, Clancy. I like this part: "The galaxy far, far away is deep within us. We only have to visit the cave on Dagobah within ourselves to know exactly how deep it goes."
I'll be interested to see whether contributors to the comments see the role of "parent" as significantly different for mothers and fathers. Obviously some differences are inescapable, but are most perceived differences cultural? I think your subtitle really covers the enormity of the subject and exploring it through literature is a good way to tackle it.
I think one of the greatest achievements of the blurring of familial lines over the past couple of decades has been the 'acceptance' of fathers within more traditionally mother spaces. I'm thinking of the fathers attending parent and baby groups and sharing maternity/paternity leave or child care with their partners. Something unthinkable to my own father.
What I'd be interested to read more about is the distribution of parenting roles within same-sex relationships, if anyone knows of any good literature on this topic!
Great comment. It also depends how businesses and governments view it. My husband was lucky to take 3 months paternity in Austria. America is not universally like this but my brother’s company (owned by John Henry of the Red Sox and Liverpool FC fame who deserves a shoutout for his progressive models) allowed him to also take three months (paid). It makes a huge difference. Many who would like to are not so lucky of course.
Thanks for the quote from my piece about The Godfather. I think we make a lot of the same points, this was a fascinating read and it was interesting to see those ideas in a different context!
Hi Jack, thanks for reaching out and the kind comment. Really enjoyed your article and was excited to find Loud and Clear when researching this for this post. Are you writing for any other publications?
My son is 18, and I’m 57. I’ve talked to some friends about this, and my anecdotal impression is that lots of dads from my era are trying to find ways to be fathers that are better than what our dads and grandfathers etc. brought to it. I loved my dad, and I don’t hold it against him that his parental skills weren’t perfect; he did his best given his role models. But I’m definitely trying to break the cycle of behavior I think was unhealthy.
I’m not sure how much my wife and I have conformed to tradition or “norms,” regarding the jobs of father or mother. We’ve mostly tried to make it a partnership, and we’ve divided up the job based on our family and who we are as people, rather than arbitrary ideas about what a mom should do and what a dad should do.
This is a great reflection. I guess we all in some way respond to our parent/role models, either to emulate or try something different. Like you say it’s also about understanding why they may have behaved a certain way in that role (mentors, society, etc). Thanks so much for sharing this with us, Karl.
Ironically, it never occurred to me how much 'the Godfather' was about fatherhood until I read this. Very interesting. Have you seen the TV series LOST? That show regularly used fatherhood and daddy issues for its plotting, with most of the main characters being defined by their difficult relationships with their fathers.
""Carlton Cuse’s response was to the point: ”I don’t think there is anything more powerful in film than father-son relationships, maybe even in literature, too.”"
Laertes always intrigued me. His last action is to forgive and absolve with Hamlet. I don't think Polonius could have ever been capable of such a thing—Laertes was the only one truly different from his father, but he still fell to the same man.
Anywho, Succession did a great job with its paternal figure as well. Great piece.
Thanks, David. Oh yes, lots to unpack in Hamlet...and this is a good start. I know everyone in the US at least is talking about Succession but I've yet to see a single episode. Thanks for the rec. Might be a rainy autumn watch for me!
Such a fascinating post. As you know, I write and talk a lot about mothering, literature, and creativity, but fathering isn't something that I have ever really looked at in depth. Some great links to check out - thanks!
Thanks, Kate! Yes I imagine it could be an interesting “special edition” type of investigation on your newsletter. I guess defining mothering within your literary context has implications for fathers, too.
I love the idea of a "special edition"! It makes me sound like an ace reporter ; )
You’re not?! 🕵️♀️
I recently wrote a short story on the theme of fatherhood in Star Wars: https://blog.pornnamepseudonym.com/p/put-the-force-back-in-the-fourth
Also, while not directly about fatherhood, there are a lot of great sitcom dads out there like Phil Dunphy (Modern Family) or Red Foreman (That 70s Show) who give something to aspire to.
Thanks for sharing this, Clancy. I like this part: "The galaxy far, far away is deep within us. We only have to visit the cave on Dagobah within ourselves to know exactly how deep it goes."
I'll be interested to see whether contributors to the comments see the role of "parent" as significantly different for mothers and fathers. Obviously some differences are inescapable, but are most perceived differences cultural? I think your subtitle really covers the enormity of the subject and exploring it through literature is a good way to tackle it.
Thank you, Jules. Also curious about people's thoughts on that aspect as well as societal (or familial) expectations.
I think one of the greatest achievements of the blurring of familial lines over the past couple of decades has been the 'acceptance' of fathers within more traditionally mother spaces. I'm thinking of the fathers attending parent and baby groups and sharing maternity/paternity leave or child care with their partners. Something unthinkable to my own father.
What I'd be interested to read more about is the distribution of parenting roles within same-sex relationships, if anyone knows of any good literature on this topic!
Great comment. It also depends how businesses and governments view it. My husband was lucky to take 3 months paternity in Austria. America is not universally like this but my brother’s company (owned by John Henry of the Red Sox and Liverpool FC fame who deserves a shoutout for his progressive models) allowed him to also take three months (paid). It makes a huge difference. Many who would like to are not so lucky of course.
Absolutely, good point!
Thanks for the quote from my piece about The Godfather. I think we make a lot of the same points, this was a fascinating read and it was interesting to see those ideas in a different context!
Hi Jack, thanks for reaching out and the kind comment. Really enjoyed your article and was excited to find Loud and Clear when researching this for this post. Are you writing for any other publications?
Here and there - all my stuff is at linktr.ee/jwalters204 if you’re interested and there are plenty of other great writers at Loud and Clear :)
Nice. I’ll check both out 🙃
Thanks for the shout out! Love the recommendations here - especially Between the World and me, and also the George Saunders. Great discussion!
Such beautiful books!
Happy to -- that post is a great link to this topic. I really need to go back to some Austen this summer.
YES - if you do, let us know! 😍
My son is 18, and I’m 57. I’ve talked to some friends about this, and my anecdotal impression is that lots of dads from my era are trying to find ways to be fathers that are better than what our dads and grandfathers etc. brought to it. I loved my dad, and I don’t hold it against him that his parental skills weren’t perfect; he did his best given his role models. But I’m definitely trying to break the cycle of behavior I think was unhealthy.
I’m not sure how much my wife and I have conformed to tradition or “norms,” regarding the jobs of father or mother. We’ve mostly tried to make it a partnership, and we’ve divided up the job based on our family and who we are as people, rather than arbitrary ideas about what a mom should do and what a dad should do.
This is a great reflection. I guess we all in some way respond to our parent/role models, either to emulate or try something different. Like you say it’s also about understanding why they may have behaved a certain way in that role (mentors, society, etc). Thanks so much for sharing this with us, Karl.
Ironically, it never occurred to me how much 'the Godfather' was about fatherhood until I read this. Very interesting. Have you seen the TV series LOST? That show regularly used fatherhood and daddy issues for its plotting, with most of the main characters being defined by their difficult relationships with their fathers.
It got to the point where the showrunners were even asked about it by Entertainment Weekly. (https://ew.com/article/2007/05/16/lost-s3-more-bad-father-theories/)
""Carlton Cuse’s response was to the point: ”I don’t think there is anything more powerful in film than father-son relationships, maybe even in literature, too.”"
I have only see a minutiae of Lost and now I’m intrigued! Thanks for the comment and link.
Laertes always intrigued me. His last action is to forgive and absolve with Hamlet. I don't think Polonius could have ever been capable of such a thing—Laertes was the only one truly different from his father, but he still fell to the same man.
Anywho, Succession did a great job with its paternal figure as well. Great piece.
Thanks, David. Oh yes, lots to unpack in Hamlet...and this is a good start. I know everyone in the US at least is talking about Succession but I've yet to see a single episode. Thanks for the rec. Might be a rainy autumn watch for me!