In response to your invitation to us to share our related work, your points have resonances for me with aspects of The Tarnished Gloriole and the worlds I am interested in exploring as a writer and in creating for the story.
I am particularly interested in the interaction between people both with what they wear, and with the space between people in their choice of clothes and how that is perceived by others, and then how that perception is received and inhabited by the wearer.
There’s an early episode on a boat on the Wannsee in which Ette and Emilie are wearing identical outfits. This was quite a scene in society for a while, and one Tissot captured. I was intrigued by what that did for the two women and for the other party-goers on the boat, and intrigued at how I might write that, whether I could capture in words what was primarily something very visual.
In writing both Julius, the leatherman, and Jamie, the bodybuilder, I, again, wanted to write about the inner sense, the self as it were, in relation to presentation. If it doesn’t sound too pretentious, to explore how to show the men in a complete way and to show that their appearance is both an active, curated (it takes time and resources to build a leatherman’s collection of clothing, as it does equally to be bodybuilder) choice that they enjoy, and an inevitable expression of who they are, and so not really a choice at all…or rather a choice to be true to themselves.
That both display their sexuality and their places within the queer world so obviously is both an outcome of who they are internally, and of how they express that through what they look like (for Jamie) and what they wear (in both senses for Julius), as well as a separate external function of how they look and what they wear. They both run a certain level of risk (in the main a low level - mainly of opprobrium or ridicule) by being so visible and exhibitionist place those risks in the context of both the rewards and their internal, private drivers to be so visible. These risks were not shared by Emilie or Ette on the boat as, somehow, their exhibitionism, their choice of identical outfits was less compromised by a quality of subversion: rather than reclaiming and exaggerating, of queering, certain aspects of masculinity as Julius and Jamie actively do, their claiming of the feminine is entirely supported by their zeitgeist and by its keeping within a norm.
The response from readers has been an interesting reflection of real life. I had a small dip in subscribers (my numbers are very small) after a Julius instalment : as if the detail of a leatherman was, somehow, perhaps not what they wanted to read (even when presented with a degree, I hope, of humour), while other people responded positively to the same instalment.
I am also intrigued in using the story to look at the world of fashion, of the opportunities it provides to show society, to show skilled people at work, to show the place it occupies in economies.
I think I may have gone on too long, so will stop here by reiterating how interesting I found your piece. There are many points you make that I’d like to respond to - particularly re James and Wharton and the interplay between America and Europe.
Nicolas, My apologies! I had set this aside, then my new job got the better of me and I lost it. Thank you for such an in depth and fascinating look at fashion in fiction. I really love this whole interplay as well. I especially like this "choice to be truly who they are" and yes, what you say absolutely makes sense.
It's also interesting what makes readers come and go. I guess we just don't know. I sometimes find it hard to see the ups and downs, but I try to remind myself it's not about the numbers. It sounds like you've had an exceptional exploration of a topic and some will love it and some won't.
Thanks again. I hope to have more time soon to get back to your work as well, especially the work you mention here.
Hey Kate, there is no need to apologise at all!! Life is full and there is always a lot we need to get done…and time runs away, and there is always a lot to read…and fall behind with reading…
It’s cool.
And I have fallen behind, big style, with your guys in Vienna…but I’ll catch up soon.
Immediate one that comes to mind is Neuromancer by William Gibson (and associated books, bother before and after) and the strong cyberpunk genre fashion, extended upon quite impressively by Blade Runner and in the game Cyberpunk 2077.
Also, I feel the fashion aspect of your serial has very much been there but in a believable sense that it's kind of gone by me without me being aware. In a good way, of course. But as soon as you mentioned the ball dress and drndle I thought "oh yes! Of course!" I even went to Google the latter the first time Marie mentioned it.
Hi Nathan, that's so great to hear about the symbolic clothing in my serial. I'd like to personally also do more with subtle clothing...the way a short is worn or hemlines or color combos. I think some writers are very skilled at it, as if they are unaware they are building character that way but it creates that extra dimension.
Blade Runner is an excellent call and it looks like it for Cyberpunk 2077 on my Googling. Sometimes a fashion is all wrapped up in an artistic movement.
Thank you and hope this helps you dress your characters in future! I'm sure you'd have some great ideas for it. :)
A pre-listen Like to say that even though I haven't listened yet the title alone has had me thinking about possibilities for all of today. I'm looking forward to this Kate. Will be commute listening tomorrow, all being well.
Thanks for this cool piece, Kate.
In response to your invitation to us to share our related work, your points have resonances for me with aspects of The Tarnished Gloriole and the worlds I am interested in exploring as a writer and in creating for the story.
I am particularly interested in the interaction between people both with what they wear, and with the space between people in their choice of clothes and how that is perceived by others, and then how that perception is received and inhabited by the wearer.
There’s an early episode on a boat on the Wannsee in which Ette and Emilie are wearing identical outfits. This was quite a scene in society for a while, and one Tissot captured. I was intrigued by what that did for the two women and for the other party-goers on the boat, and intrigued at how I might write that, whether I could capture in words what was primarily something very visual.
In writing both Julius, the leatherman, and Jamie, the bodybuilder, I, again, wanted to write about the inner sense, the self as it were, in relation to presentation. If it doesn’t sound too pretentious, to explore how to show the men in a complete way and to show that their appearance is both an active, curated (it takes time and resources to build a leatherman’s collection of clothing, as it does equally to be bodybuilder) choice that they enjoy, and an inevitable expression of who they are, and so not really a choice at all…or rather a choice to be true to themselves.
That both display their sexuality and their places within the queer world so obviously is both an outcome of who they are internally, and of how they express that through what they look like (for Jamie) and what they wear (in both senses for Julius), as well as a separate external function of how they look and what they wear. They both run a certain level of risk (in the main a low level - mainly of opprobrium or ridicule) by being so visible and exhibitionist place those risks in the context of both the rewards and their internal, private drivers to be so visible. These risks were not shared by Emilie or Ette on the boat as, somehow, their exhibitionism, their choice of identical outfits was less compromised by a quality of subversion: rather than reclaiming and exaggerating, of queering, certain aspects of masculinity as Julius and Jamie actively do, their claiming of the feminine is entirely supported by their zeitgeist and by its keeping within a norm.
The response from readers has been an interesting reflection of real life. I had a small dip in subscribers (my numbers are very small) after a Julius instalment : as if the detail of a leatherman was, somehow, perhaps not what they wanted to read (even when presented with a degree, I hope, of humour), while other people responded positively to the same instalment.
I am also intrigued in using the story to look at the world of fashion, of the opportunities it provides to show society, to show skilled people at work, to show the place it occupies in economies.
I think I may have gone on too long, so will stop here by reiterating how interesting I found your piece. There are many points you make that I’d like to respond to - particularly re James and Wharton and the interplay between America and Europe.
Nicolas, My apologies! I had set this aside, then my new job got the better of me and I lost it. Thank you for such an in depth and fascinating look at fashion in fiction. I really love this whole interplay as well. I especially like this "choice to be truly who they are" and yes, what you say absolutely makes sense.
It's also interesting what makes readers come and go. I guess we just don't know. I sometimes find it hard to see the ups and downs, but I try to remind myself it's not about the numbers. It sounds like you've had an exceptional exploration of a topic and some will love it and some won't.
Thanks again. I hope to have more time soon to get back to your work as well, especially the work you mention here.
Hey Kate, there is no need to apologise at all!! Life is full and there is always a lot we need to get done…and time runs away, and there is always a lot to read…and fall behind with reading…
It’s cool.
And I have fallen behind, big style, with your guys in Vienna…but I’ll catch up soon.
All good ☺️
Immediate one that comes to mind is Neuromancer by William Gibson (and associated books, bother before and after) and the strong cyberpunk genre fashion, extended upon quite impressively by Blade Runner and in the game Cyberpunk 2077.
Also, I feel the fashion aspect of your serial has very much been there but in a believable sense that it's kind of gone by me without me being aware. In a good way, of course. But as soon as you mentioned the ball dress and drndle I thought "oh yes! Of course!" I even went to Google the latter the first time Marie mentioned it.
Hi Nathan, that's so great to hear about the symbolic clothing in my serial. I'd like to personally also do more with subtle clothing...the way a short is worn or hemlines or color combos. I think some writers are very skilled at it, as if they are unaware they are building character that way but it creates that extra dimension.
Blade Runner is an excellent call and it looks like it for Cyberpunk 2077 on my Googling. Sometimes a fashion is all wrapped up in an artistic movement.
Thank you and hope this helps you dress your characters in future! I'm sure you'd have some great ideas for it. :)
A pre-listen Like to say that even though I haven't listened yet the title alone has had me thinking about possibilities for all of today. I'm looking forward to this Kate. Will be commute listening tomorrow, all being well.
Nice!
*oops the comments are now open to all!