Excellent, excellent listen, Kate. I was WFH today so I missed out on my usual podcast listen whilst commuting, but I went out for a nice long walk with this on (my preferred means of enjoying a podcast) and am richer for it.
I've never read much in the way of spy novels, so I haven't any to add to the list.
Quite fascinating to hear of "The secret lives..." FT article, which thankfully does let me click through to the full thing :)
Once, in my foolish youth, I tried to apply to be in MI6 (or some such secret agency) via their initial online screening process. I think I failed at the first hurdle set of tests. 😆
You know, I was thinking, "well, I don't think my fiction has much spy-ness in it," but then I realised of course it does. A key part of Precipice is in Jisa's attempted heist of information stealing. I really should get back to that one...
Thanks a lot, Nathan! Proud to be a part of your WFH day :)
(I also enjoy walking/commuting with podcasts! Think I will go on a walk with one soon...)
Good you can read the FT article. I'm not a paid subscriber and occasionally can access articles. (I like to get the paper version on the weekend when I have time.)
I am SHOCKED you didn't make it through round one of M16 but maybe you are better/safer for it!
Precipice - definitely. I also think you use the mystery and labyrinth elements of espionage at times more subtly.
PS, meant to add after seeing your links: although it's not really spy, but is certainly thriller, The Da Vinci Code came to mind and more so Dan Brown's quite excellent (if playing very much into formulaic writing) masterclass over on Masterclass. https://www.masterclass.com/classes/dan-brown-teaches-writing-thrillers
I got gifted a year’s subscription for my birthday last year, so I blazed through all of the fiction stuff. Particularly enjoyed Dan’s as well as NK Jemisin’s talks.
Thanks so much for this wonderful piece, Kate. One of my favourite subjects in fiction. I always fancied myself as a spy but I'd have been hopeless at it - generally hopeless, but also the ethical dilemmas and facility with lying would have been beyond me! You may have heard of British police officers who infiltrated political groups and entered into relationships with women, had children with them and so on, just as part of their "deep cover". That's an instance of the moral compass going a bit skew-whiff I think!
If you've never seen The Ipcress File, a 1965 movie starring Michael Caine, and its two sequels, Funeral In Berlin and Billion Dollar Brain, I think you would love them. I'll leave a link to an early Dialectic article that gives you a taster. I also recommend the memoirs of Stella Rimington, ex-head of MI5 : Open Secret - The Autobiography of the former Director-General of MI5.
Now...this is the novel that should be written! What difficult moral and ethical challenges. And no, I haven't seen the films or read the memoir. I need to catch up.
I imagine there would be some fun as a spy, but then I think that authentic life would be hard to achieve. I'm happy you're safe from that kind of life, Jules. Thanks a lot for listening and the great comment.
I think the life of a spy is for loners. I suppose some have their own ethical framework - a belief in the ideology of the state for whom they are spying, maybe, but spy stories are littered with corruption and double/triple agents. In Funeral in Berlin, the second film in the Ipcress trilogy there is a lovely character called Colonel Stok, played by Oscar Homolka. He's an old rogue, a Russian who tries to defect to England. I'll reveal no more in case you watch it but it's an unexpectedly amusing encounter in the midst of the very sinister world of espionage. He and Harry, though on opposite sides, have a surprisingly warm understanding. Spying is a terrible thing really, and a huge waste of resources. If we lived in a utopia where countries co-operated instead of sneaking around trying to get one over on each other we would not need to fund MI5, MI6, FBI, CIA, etc, etc, ad infinitum. Sad, really. Oh well. Makes for great books and films! 😆
Yes, "birds of a feather" and all that. It's almost shedding one life and embracing another; stepping over the threshold from one reality into another. Whether it's enough depends, I suppose, on the quality of the relationships: it is possible to be lonely in a large group. Marie is a great character and the perfect lens through which to watch the story unfold. 🤓
Excellent, excellent listen, Kate. I was WFH today so I missed out on my usual podcast listen whilst commuting, but I went out for a nice long walk with this on (my preferred means of enjoying a podcast) and am richer for it.
I've never read much in the way of spy novels, so I haven't any to add to the list.
Quite fascinating to hear of "The secret lives..." FT article, which thankfully does let me click through to the full thing :)
Once, in my foolish youth, I tried to apply to be in MI6 (or some such secret agency) via their initial online screening process. I think I failed at the first hurdle set of tests. 😆
You know, I was thinking, "well, I don't think my fiction has much spy-ness in it," but then I realised of course it does. A key part of Precipice is in Jisa's attempted heist of information stealing. I really should get back to that one...
Thanks a lot, Nathan! Proud to be a part of your WFH day :)
(I also enjoy walking/commuting with podcasts! Think I will go on a walk with one soon...)
Good you can read the FT article. I'm not a paid subscriber and occasionally can access articles. (I like to get the paper version on the weekend when I have time.)
I am SHOCKED you didn't make it through round one of M16 but maybe you are better/safer for it!
Precipice - definitely. I also think you use the mystery and labyrinth elements of espionage at times more subtly.
I’ll gladly accept the mystery/labyrinths ;)
RE: MI6, yeah I’m not sure, I can’t remember, I did it in a hurry and fluffed it. A long series of puzzle/riddle things, if I recall.
Shocked because if you’re not making it through I don’t know who is. But perhaps you subconsciously opted out on purpose :)
As I said, "my foolish youth" ;)
edit: but on a serious note, I do love puzzles and riddles, but just not when placed under time pressure.
PS, meant to add after seeing your links: although it's not really spy, but is certainly thriller, The Da Vinci Code came to mind and more so Dan Brown's quite excellent (if playing very much into formulaic writing) masterclass over on Masterclass. https://www.masterclass.com/classes/dan-brown-teaches-writing-thrillers
Oh, very cool. I like Dan Brown's work and think it adds a lot of depth to this discussion. Did you take the masterclass? Do you use masterclass? 🤔
I got gifted a year’s subscription for my birthday last year, so I blazed through all of the fiction stuff. Particularly enjoyed Dan’s as well as NK Jemisin’s talks.
Thanks so much for this wonderful piece, Kate. One of my favourite subjects in fiction. I always fancied myself as a spy but I'd have been hopeless at it - generally hopeless, but also the ethical dilemmas and facility with lying would have been beyond me! You may have heard of British police officers who infiltrated political groups and entered into relationships with women, had children with them and so on, just as part of their "deep cover". That's an instance of the moral compass going a bit skew-whiff I think!
If you've never seen The Ipcress File, a 1965 movie starring Michael Caine, and its two sequels, Funeral In Berlin and Billion Dollar Brain, I think you would love them. I'll leave a link to an early Dialectic article that gives you a taster. I also recommend the memoirs of Stella Rimington, ex-head of MI5 : Open Secret - The Autobiography of the former Director-General of MI5.
https://open.substack.com/pub/juliadpickering/p/the-ipcress-file?r=1hm9gb&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web
Thanks so much for the mention, and for this wonderful treasure chest of things I love and, as always things I need to explore. I really enjoyed it.
Now...this is the novel that should be written! What difficult moral and ethical challenges. And no, I haven't seen the films or read the memoir. I need to catch up.
I imagine there would be some fun as a spy, but then I think that authentic life would be hard to achieve. I'm happy you're safe from that kind of life, Jules. Thanks a lot for listening and the great comment.
And I know just the person to write it 🤓
I think the life of a spy is for loners. I suppose some have their own ethical framework - a belief in the ideology of the state for whom they are spying, maybe, but spy stories are littered with corruption and double/triple agents. In Funeral in Berlin, the second film in the Ipcress trilogy there is a lovely character called Colonel Stok, played by Oscar Homolka. He's an old rogue, a Russian who tries to defect to England. I'll reveal no more in case you watch it but it's an unexpectedly amusing encounter in the midst of the very sinister world of espionage. He and Harry, though on opposite sides, have a surprisingly warm understanding. Spying is a terrible thing really, and a huge waste of resources. If we lived in a utopia where countries co-operated instead of sneaking around trying to get one over on each other we would not need to fund MI5, MI6, FBI, CIA, etc, etc, ad infinitum. Sad, really. Oh well. Makes for great books and films! 😆
Oh yes oh yes. It would be good not to need spies and make it sci-fi or fantasy to write about, or historical fiction I guess.
My poor Marie is getting isolated. There are a set of spies in my novel who are not. 👀 But then maybe they only have each other and is it enough?
Yes, "birds of a feather" and all that. It's almost shedding one life and embracing another; stepping over the threshold from one reality into another. Whether it's enough depends, I suppose, on the quality of the relationships: it is possible to be lonely in a large group. Marie is a great character and the perfect lens through which to watch the story unfold. 🤓
I haven't listened or read yet, and will look forward to that, but just wanted to say that I thought The Lives of Others was a brilliant film.
Agree, it’s incredible!