Really fascinating discussion, Kate, especially for me the 9/11 question (and the Covid question). Trauma does seem to inform a lot of queer fiction, and it strikes me that on the question of repression, that the act of repressing people becomes the embodiment for the repressed trauma of all people; it's easy to forget that the victims of misogyny and homophobia include straight, cis men too. Thanks for this!
Troy, this is a really compelling and important point you are making about repression. It also speaks of invisibility. Normally we think of the oppressed as invisible, but this collective experience can be part of the invisible fabric of others as well. I need to ponder your ideas further. :) Thanks so much for the great comment!
There's definitely creative experiences in my fiction, particularly the latest stuff with world-reaching waves of shadow and light energy. Children of Shadows that's on my account here begins that story, certainly affecting all the characters by bringing them together in the post-apocalyptic landscape with collective amnesia and trauma at finding most of the world gone. In fact the whole story of the two novels so far in this universe spins from the different reactions to this same experience. In the second novel, is it a much more positive experience with then a shared goal of humanity to rebuild. Glad these are back!
I really like this idea, Harvey, about 'showing' the collective experience or trauma through a kind of energy field. This is very interesting! Amnesia is a good one as well. I think of The Memory Police. Incredible novel. Thanks for listening and your comment!
I can't Like you because the button stopped working for me. So consider yourself liked. BTW I brought this problem up with the Substack helpbot. It couldn't fix the problem, but was very, very concerned. That's a very false 'bot : )
This lays some important ideas before us, not only for fiction writers but inevitably to help develop our own thoughts. Today one of the many things that caught my attention is how the state controls the citizen. It decides the boundaries of acceptable behaviour by legislating and policing to the point where a school production of a world-famous story sounds, to be frank, as if it is more trouble than it's worth to even attempt, when of course the story it tells is very important. That could be dangerous for us as a society. I wonder whether it infantilises us and takes away our capacity to recognise moral boundaries ourselves and be free, albeit with certain responsibilities.
Personally I am well and truly plugged into the collective experience of reading this post, for example in 2001 I visited the Checkpoint Charlie museum in Berlin, so your comments about Vienna turned my thoughts to that, and later that year came the disaster of 9/11 attacks, when I imagine everyone old enough remembers where they were and how they experienced them. Moving on from severe trauma, and by that I mean where possible, reducing its impact for those most directly affected by it, is incredibly difficult, and I don't think society as a whole is all that good at it. It takes sensitivity, empathy and also strength. There are ways that some societies claw away at wounds instead of taking steps that might help the healing process, and thus make further trauma less likely. I once heard a brother and sister of one of the victims of the 9/11 attack speak in the most inspirational way, not expressing hatred for those who perpetrated the attack that killed their brother, but first and foremost a need to understand why the hatred existed. In a sense they were thinking collectively, rather than prioritising their own pain. I don't know whether I would be able to do that myself but I never forgot it. They were very special people.
Thank you again for a hugely absorbing piece. I loved the clips of Philippe Petit (could ramble on for ages about what he does!) and Nosferatu. And dear old Robin Williams. Off to pick through the other links now!
I love the way you talk about creating hope from trauma. Absolutely! I tend to think writing (and other art forms) do this, either by simply facing the feelings head on (perhaps in a cathartic way?) or exploring possibilities and types of empathy or at least understanding like those siblings you mention did.
Also, your first paragraph had me thinking a bit about this show I recently saw on the BBC - Inside No. 9 / Season 3 Ep 1 - Boo to a Goose. I won't say more. It's short and creepy.
Thanks for the wonderful comment! You always add a lot of new ideas to the conversation, Jules.
Yes they are macabre. Two guys from an old series called The League of Gentlemen were in it. Now that was very creepy indeed, but very innovative when it started.
Really fascinating discussion, Kate, especially for me the 9/11 question (and the Covid question). Trauma does seem to inform a lot of queer fiction, and it strikes me that on the question of repression, that the act of repressing people becomes the embodiment for the repressed trauma of all people; it's easy to forget that the victims of misogyny and homophobia include straight, cis men too. Thanks for this!
Troy, this is a really compelling and important point you are making about repression. It also speaks of invisibility. Normally we think of the oppressed as invisible, but this collective experience can be part of the invisible fabric of others as well. I need to ponder your ideas further. :) Thanks so much for the great comment!
There's definitely creative experiences in my fiction, particularly the latest stuff with world-reaching waves of shadow and light energy. Children of Shadows that's on my account here begins that story, certainly affecting all the characters by bringing them together in the post-apocalyptic landscape with collective amnesia and trauma at finding most of the world gone. In fact the whole story of the two novels so far in this universe spins from the different reactions to this same experience. In the second novel, is it a much more positive experience with then a shared goal of humanity to rebuild. Glad these are back!
I really like this idea, Harvey, about 'showing' the collective experience or trauma through a kind of energy field. This is very interesting! Amnesia is a good one as well. I think of The Memory Police. Incredible novel. Thanks for listening and your comment!
Well when ya write fiction you write history. There's your collective experience
Thanks Richard. Sure, I agree that fiction both reflects and creates the collective experience.
I can't Like you because the button stopped working for me. So consider yourself liked. BTW I brought this problem up with the Substack helpbot. It couldn't fix the problem, but was very, very concerned. That's a very false 'bot : )
:)
This lays some important ideas before us, not only for fiction writers but inevitably to help develop our own thoughts. Today one of the many things that caught my attention is how the state controls the citizen. It decides the boundaries of acceptable behaviour by legislating and policing to the point where a school production of a world-famous story sounds, to be frank, as if it is more trouble than it's worth to even attempt, when of course the story it tells is very important. That could be dangerous for us as a society. I wonder whether it infantilises us and takes away our capacity to recognise moral boundaries ourselves and be free, albeit with certain responsibilities.
Personally I am well and truly plugged into the collective experience of reading this post, for example in 2001 I visited the Checkpoint Charlie museum in Berlin, so your comments about Vienna turned my thoughts to that, and later that year came the disaster of 9/11 attacks, when I imagine everyone old enough remembers where they were and how they experienced them. Moving on from severe trauma, and by that I mean where possible, reducing its impact for those most directly affected by it, is incredibly difficult, and I don't think society as a whole is all that good at it. It takes sensitivity, empathy and also strength. There are ways that some societies claw away at wounds instead of taking steps that might help the healing process, and thus make further trauma less likely. I once heard a brother and sister of one of the victims of the 9/11 attack speak in the most inspirational way, not expressing hatred for those who perpetrated the attack that killed their brother, but first and foremost a need to understand why the hatred existed. In a sense they were thinking collectively, rather than prioritising their own pain. I don't know whether I would be able to do that myself but I never forgot it. They were very special people.
Thank you again for a hugely absorbing piece. I loved the clips of Philippe Petit (could ramble on for ages about what he does!) and Nosferatu. And dear old Robin Williams. Off to pick through the other links now!
I love the way you talk about creating hope from trauma. Absolutely! I tend to think writing (and other art forms) do this, either by simply facing the feelings head on (perhaps in a cathartic way?) or exploring possibilities and types of empathy or at least understanding like those siblings you mention did.
Also, your first paragraph had me thinking a bit about this show I recently saw on the BBC - Inside No. 9 / Season 3 Ep 1 - Boo to a Goose. I won't say more. It's short and creepy.
Thanks for the wonderful comment! You always add a lot of new ideas to the conversation, Jules.
Your articles are always such a stimulating read! Thanks for the tip too - I saw the first series of Inside No. 9. It was good!
I’ve only seen a few - some are super creepy or sad!
Yes they are macabre. Two guys from an old series called The League of Gentlemen were in it. Now that was very creepy indeed, but very innovative when it started.